>>Nonhydrogenated shortening and margarine produced by Earthbalance and full-fat soy milk from Silk are her baking staples.

She uses Silk? Great example to set, Ms. Moskowitz.

Why is it not surprising that someone so proud of her EDGY, NON-CONFORMIST approach is using SILK? I mean seriously, WHAT THE FUCK???

http://www.google.com/search?q=boycott+silk+dean
 

Oh god, I knew the critics would come! Just for the record, there are several misquotes in the article. I actually usually use vitasoy and have said so on numerous occasions, however that afternoon after several batches of cupcakes we ran out of soy milk and had to make a dash to the corner store where they only stock Silk so I got that.
 

woah woah woah. come on vegan. let's not get so nit-picky. isa's probably done more for veganism from her show and cookbooks than a lot of us will do our whole lives. so let's not be so eager to jump down her throat.
-emiko
 

Way to go! I thought it was a great article. Congrats, Isa!
 

Perhaps, I came off a bit harsh in my initial post. I apologize, but I was honestly in a state of shock. But let me tell you what... I used to LOVE Silk, especially Chocolate Silk. I mean REALLY love it! Even now, I acknowledge that it is the best soymilk I've ever tasted. It used to be a staple of mine. But that was until I learned of Dean Foods' questionable interpretation of organic standards, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, their completely callous disregard toward the horrible conditions that exist at at least one of their dairy suppliers. Horrible conditions that have resulted in the unimaginable suffering and deaths of countless dairy cows...

http://www.hfa.org/campaigns/threemile_dairy_petition.pdf

Now, I won't make any assumptions. Perhaps you and I are vegan for slightly different reasons, but my primary reason for being vegan is to do everything I can to eliminate animal suffering and killing on this planet. One way I can work toward my goal is the wise and willful use of my pocketbook. I don't purchase items produced by Dean Foods because every penny of profit that they extract from me is one that can be funneled into the machine of animal suffering and death. This is the exact OPPOSITE of what I want to do with the remaining years that I have on this planet. For me, purchasing Silk products would be just as bad as going to Burger King and ordering a Whopper. At this point in my life, I could never imagine doing either, even for the sake of "convenience".

But who am I? Just a random, anonymous person on a message board. You, Isa, on the other hand, whether you like it or not, are a role model. Because of your celebrity status, and media impact, people look to you as a pristine gold standard of what veganism should be. For the most part, I think you are doing great. I have even bought both of your cookbooks. In fact, you have done a whole hell of a lot toward minimizing animal suffering, which is perhaps why I was so surprised to read about the Silk. And even though your purchase of Silk was not representative of your usual behavior, this action gave the reporter the impression that such a purchase was acceptable. Sadly, because of this article, the assumption that Silk is "OK" or "vegan-friendly" has been again reinforced to countless thousands of vegans and aspiring vegans.

I implore you, Isa, please don't buy Silk. If for no one else's sake, than that of the animals'. And please, read through the document found at the link above. This is what we're dealing with. It's sick. it sad, but I hope it calls you to action.
 

"But who am I? Just a random, anonymous person on a message board"

exactly. i think a lot of us around here are wondering when you're actually gonna start to police the vegan state in person. the whole mysterious internet persona is getting pretty tired (here and on the boards).
if you ever bothered to take the time to talk to (in person) or get to know ANY of the people you're always shit-talking against, chances are the exchange would end up being much more pleasant and effective than your bottomless toilet internet drama.

maybe when we vegans can get off our fuckin' high horses, we'd be able to further the cause. find ways to work together rather than nit-picking each other to death. this is quite similar to when ryan smith complained about the "i love hunting accidents" shirts.

instead of imploring Isa, why don't you focus on shedding the "random/anonymous" status of yours and work to become some sort of leader/role model/celebrity in the vegan community? maybe people would start to take you more seriously. maybe then you'd be one step closer to walking in Isa's shoes.

until then, i suggest you find a more effective way of "vegan outreach." because the whole "fuck you, you're a bastard!" method just alienates and divides our small community.

p.s. - feel free to stop by the shop anytime. i'm sure many of us (including myself) are willing to sit down and have a civil discussion with you.
 

It's such a bummer to see our movement do more to slit our own throats than the government, big business, and the Center for Consumer Freedom ever could. Uggh.

chad
 

first and foremost: kickass job, isa and terry.

what veganism means to me:

community- supporting it. respecting ALL of its members, including self.

sharing - physically and in a collegial sense. remember back in the sandbox when you would learn something new and groundbreaking through discovery?..then you would be so excited about your discovery that you couldn't help but zealously share it with all your friends. let's do that.

being a critical-thinking, conscious consumer.

choosing ideological and moral beliefs over accepted stimulus. (i.e. oh god! i could never live without brie!)

my favorite phrase is "get over yourself". the person i tell this phrase to most is myself. it always reminds me to do just that, get over myself.

my analogy is the party host that gets so high strung about the success of her or his party that she/he not only forgets the original concept of a party and has a miserable time, but also stresses out all of the guests. let's not do that. it ruins the party.

let's all take a deep breath and be friends. i find i am more productive when i am comfortable.

i would say it's on all of us to make sure ourselves and each other is comfortable.

collegiality. it's rad. each one teach one.
 

Yay Phillip!
 

@ben: 6 people sitting in prison right now give me a perfectly legitimate reason to keep my anonymity.

Are you seriously telling me that by encouraging other vegans to discontinue the use of products that ENABLE animal suffering (when a plethora of animal-friendly alternatives are available), I am a "shit talker"?

You speak about me always "shit-talking against" people. Please provide me ONE example of this.

I am on a "high-horse" because I abstain from products that cause animal suffering, and encourage others to do so as well? Do you seriously think that vegans should never talk about products that enable animal suffering? Is animal suffering a "non-issue" for you?

And I never called anyone any names. (Please don't put words in my mouth) I never called anyone an asshole. If you read my post, I stated that for the most part, she is doing a great job, and I have purchased both of her cookbooks. I would never buy a book written by someone I would consider an "asshole". I have not called anyone here an "asshole". Dean Foods is the asshole. Of course, anyone who tries to point this out, it seems, is labeled a monster.

and chad...please tell me how highlighting the abuses of Dean foods is "slit[ing] our own throats"

I always thought it was about focusing on each segment of our lives (in this case, the food we eat), and applying our vegan morality to achieve certain standards. This is why food fight exists. This is why (and correct me here if I am wrong) that Food Fight does not sell products manufactured by Dean Foods.

Do you mean to say that standards are not important?

I always thought that the primary aim of veganism was about saving animals. Perhaps I am wrong.
 

like i said before:

come down to the store.
lets talk.
i'll even share my donuts.
 

just pick a time.
my schedule is fairly wide open today.
 

It is interesting that a negative spin is taken out of everything. Isa is doing a kick-ass job spreading the word about vegan cooking and baking. You can also argue that because it is not whole grain it does harm, or this or that. There can always be something to criticize. But why are there 9 posts arguing about Silk soymilk (really just arguing) when there was just one post about POM juice STOPPING animal testing!? That was huge, yet I guess it wasn't enough drama for people.
 

Dear Vegan, I think everyone is irritated with you because of instead of simply mentioning what is wrong with Silk and Dean, you just seem to get all pissy with Isa. You just act like she's some sellout or not vegan enough or whatever. People are sick of infighting and tired of seeing people get shot down for trying there best to do the right thing.

chad
 

I just wanted to say that I am new to veganism, I am a middle-class parent of 5 and I think I speak for many people like myself when I say that arguments like these make people like me shy away from being more "out there" with veganism. I had no idea about Silk, and I am grateful now that I have this information. We've only been vegan for a couple of months, and sometimes the amount of information I learn daily is daunting. We learn and move on. Anyway, I think that the future of veganism lies in today's children, so we need to be more encouraging to parents/people like me (wanting to do the right thing by the animals, our children, and their future, but needing room to make and correct mistakes), who can pass these values down to our kids and create a ripple effect. Any step toward the goal is a step in the right direction. Lets not tear each other down.
 

We agree. It's a shame this has gone on for as many posts as it has.
 

Oh crap, the fascist vegan police are here!

Why do you act so surprised about Isa using Silk? She mentions it in Vegan with a Vengeance you know.

Anyways, if you're going to be such a purist, then you should ONLY shop at all vegan stores, or else your money might go towards animal suffering! Or you better not buy organic produce, because they use animal products as fertilizers in those operations!
 

Man, I fucking love Silk yogurt.
 

Man, I ffffing love this website. And I love all you other vegans out there - even when we don't all agree. And I'll remain anonymous for many reasons. And thanks to Emiko and Chad and all the staff at FoodFight for making this site the first site I visit each day for my daily news. Don't ever change!!!

And to all you new vegans with children - stay the course! How I wish no one had ever fed me animal products as a child and made me feel like eating death was "normal." Your children will some day thank you. Even if not directly.
 

"woah woah woah. come on vegan. let's not get so nit-picky. isa's probably done more for veganism from her show and cookbooks than a lot of us will do our whole lives. so let's not be so eager to jump down her throat.
-emiko"

To bad that she kicks real vegans off her message boards for arguing with a meat eater.
 

But you know what as much as I think Isa is a piece of crap for personal reasons I wish her nothing but good luck, she does one thing good and that is put a positive face on veganism and that is a good thing.
 

2nd-ing and 3rd-ing the stuff other people are advising, vegan

Half the time when I reach out to people with kind, factual, well-researched outreach, I first have to deal with the "vegan stereotype" that so many omnivores bring to the table. This vegan stereotype is based on the type of approach that you are using - angry, confrontational, nit-picky, quick to judge, etc.

Half the time, I have to calmly and patiently dismantle this stereotype before we can even begin to talk about what's so great about veganism.

Do you realize that your form of discourse can harm the cause of veganism more than which type of soymilk you choose could ever help it? Do you realize that you are making it THAT MUCH HARDER for the rest of us to do effective outreach for veganism and attract more vegans.

Switching brands of soymilk may have a marginal effect on reducing animal suffering. What has a MAJOR EFFECT is attracting more people to veganism. Verbal abuse, in-fighting, nit-picking people's best intentions, harsh judgments are things which will make people run away from veganism not towards it.

So if you want to help the animals, I think you should look into becoming a more effective advocate for them. Lawyers don't win cases by insulting the judge or pissing in the court. If you're open to suggestions, please go to http://www.veganoutreach.com and read the section on effective advocacy or read Carol Adams' book Living Among Meat-Eaters. Patience, non-judgment and kind words aren't as "sexy" as having the moral high-ground at all times, but they are the tools each of us needs if we're going to ever make this a better world for animals.

P.S. - Congrats, again, Isa. I'm on your LJ friends page, too, and was happy to see the article.
 

Shit, and now I sound angry. Way to be kind, Jen. vegan, I'm sorry if I sound pissed off. I was. I realize that you're doing your best. But I think that your approach to veganism may actually be harming the animals you are trying to save. A friend of mine once told me that if one or two people criticize something about you, you can probably ignore it, but if nearly everyone says the same thing about you, you should stop and really think about what those people are saying. That would be my advice in this case, and I really recommend the sources I mentioned above. Remember, that all of us here are on the same team. None of us wants to harm animals.
 

aside all the question as to "how vegan" someone is (maybe it was the times writing a glitch about what they saw instead of doing their homework in depth eh?), i think this article is smart and fantastic. way to go isa.
 

Thanks for the support guys. To vegan - you actually did shit talk when you said the "EDGY" thing. I certainly don't use the word "EDGY" to identify myself. (caps yours)

But, I do agree that I shouldn't promote Silk and, like I said in my initial post, the quote they attributed to me was incorrect. A lot of the article was actually incorrect and I will be posting about that on my website when I get a chance. I wanted to spend a few days just being happy about it.

I think that dialogue about what we are eating is important, not just the vegan food we're eating but everything. I am actually new at being a "role-model" so I am sure things will come up and I will scrutinized and that is fine. Everyone has room for improvement, no doubt. I never expect to be perfect. No one is. Unless you are dead. Dead people are perfect. And Chad and Emiko are perfect. But that is it.
 

I just wanted to share my story and throw out a thought…

I became a vegetarian a year ago tomorrow. And since the beginning of this year have cut out eggs and dairy. I think that it is very important to say that everything I have learned about being a vegetarian …and transitioning to vegan has been learned through reading everything I can get my hands on on-line. I found that reading peoples posts and blogs on the many different sites was most helpful to me. The day I turned vegetarian I felt this sudden bond and sense of belonging with every vege/vegan evreywhere. But it didn’t take long for me to learn that eating dairy and eggs was no better than eating meat. I understand this and I completely agree. But I did not learn this through kindness, support and guidance. I learned it through anger, hate and disgust. And I completely understand the intolerance for animal suffering. Until reading these posts yesterday, I had no idea that Silk contributed to animal suffering. So immediately I went to the listed links and read. Needless to say I will not be buying Silk soymilk (Dean products) anymore. But again, this wasn’t learned by kindness and support, it was learned through anger and attack and though it was not directed directly at me, it was directed at me because I was a Silk buyer. It is because of attacks like this that make me keep my lifestyle hush hush, instead of reaching out and trying to help change others. My point is we are all shooting for the same goal, and it is a constant learning process and it is constantly changing with the new products and companies and how companies hide and lie their cruelty. Lets educate, support and guide each other.

I just wanted to say thank you to Food Fight, I check your website everyday….a couple times a day. I have learned so much, you have been a large support in my learning process. And thank you to everyone who leaves posts…again I have learned so much from all of you and you always give me something to think about. I believe that we are already set apart from the majority of society because they do not accept our way of thinking and living. I have no support or understanding from the people in my personal life. But when I join the vegi’s of the world on line, I feel like I belong. Lets not lose that, there are many people using YOU as a learning tool. (And by YOU, I mean whoever is reading this, not Food Fight or any one specific.)
 

I just wanted to share my story and throw out a thought…

I became a vegetarian a year ago tomorrow. And since the beginning of this year have cut out eggs and dairy. I think that it is very important to say that everything I have learned about being a vegetarian …and transitioning to vegan has been learned through reading everything I can get my hands on on-line. I found that reading peoples posts and blogs on the many different sites was most helpful to me. The day I turned vegetarian I felt this sudden bond and sense of belonging with every vege/vegan evreywhere. But it didn’t take long for me to learn that eating dairy and eggs was no better than eating meat. I understand this and I completely agree. But I did not learn this through kindness, support and guidance. I learned it through anger, hate and disgust. And I completely understand the intolerance for animal suffering. Until reading these posts yesterday, I had no idea that Silk contributed to animal suffering. So immediately I went to the listed links and read. Needless to say I will not be buying Silk soymilk (Dean products) anymore. But again, this wasn’t learned by kindness and support, it was learned through anger and attack and though it was not directed directly at me, it was directed at me because I was a Silk buyer. It is because of attacks like this that make me keep my lifestyle hush hush, instead of reaching out and trying to help change others. My point is we are all shooting for the same goal, and it is a constant learning process and it is constantly changing with the new products and companies and how companies hide and lie their cruelty. Lets educate, support and guide each other.

I just wanted to say thank you to Food Fight, I check your website everyday….a couple times a day. I have learned so much, you have been a large support in my learning process. And thank you to everyone who leaves posts…again I have learned so much from all of you and you always give me something to think about. I believe that we are already set apart from the majority of society because they do not accept our way of thinking and living. I have no support or understanding from the people in my personal life. But when I join the vegi’s of the world on line, I feel like I belong. Lets not lose that, there are many people using YOU as a learning tool. (And by YOU, I mean whoever is reading this, not Food Fight or any one specific.)

From Southern California
 

Amen. Thats one of the things I was trying to say (poorly) above. I'm sure there are lots of silent vegans or aspiring vegans reading these posts all the time, who never "come out of the closet" for that fear of being attacked for one thing or another. My first thought when reading that first comment was "Jeez, good thing nobody knows I was buying Silk!" We should educate people, not shame them.
 

i'm glad these comment section have taken a turn for the good.
and my offer still stands: at the shop, anytime, lets talk in person, i still have a few donuts left.
in fact, its something we should probably do more often.
scheduled informational meetings (in person), rather than always going back and forth on the internetS.
and everyone's right, we need to focus on educating without shaming.

i spent the majority of my life NOT going veg OUT OF PURE SPITE for other veg*ns. their "fuck you, you murderer!" attitude/campaign was the one thing that KEPT me consuming animal products. it wasn't till that one night in lexington, KY (me ordering a spicy beef burrito among all bean ones) that someone finally sat down with me and answered all of my questions....not once did they make me feel like a douchebag. i went to bed that night wanting to learn more....
it just snowballed from there.
 

ben, i'll come talk to you for a donut.

alan
 

deal.

mint/choc or nuts?
those are the only 2 kinds i have left.

p.s. - theres one still left for "vegan" if he wants to join us.
 

isa, you rock! i gave out several copies of your book this past holiday season, and i've been repaid in frosted deliciousness. thank you!!!
xoxo, val
 

I really liked the article. I think its nice when vegans can be in the media and they don't advocate murder like Peter Singer does or have to show a lot of skin like most Peta spokespeople seem to. The only complaint (and this is kind of a silly one) is that at the begining Isa makes some kind of crack about vegans cooking vegetables instead of meat substitutes when most of her VWaV recipes all call for tofu, seitan, tempeh and the like!


to hell with Silk but it whoops cow milks ass with a belt....
 

According to the article VwaV, Isa's first book, sold 50,000 copies!! 50,000!!! If that isn't advancing the cause of veganism I don't know what is. I doubt there are that many vegans in the USA...At least not before they got a copy :)
 

Actually many statistics put the US vegan pop at about 1%, that would be 300,000 vegans.
 

Wow, my math sucks today. That would actually put it at 3 million-ish. Amazing the difference one decimal place can make.