i cringed the whole time watching that video. not because of the mouthbreathing drunk - he needs his own show - but because of the loud chick who pounced upon the opportunity of a reducto ad hitlerum argument.

also, it was sad that everyone starting screaming 'racist' and scared the fellow off. calmly asking him for more of his brilliant opinions would make for a better video.
 

I agree with the above comment. Since they are never going to convince this guy of anything, the argument is only useful to educate those around them. Let him hang himself but make sure to provide plenty of rope.

I like what he said about Michael Jordan being lucky they caught him! As if Dean Smith went over to Africa with a net in 1981 and picked him out of a herd. Crazy shit.
 

Oh please, Lauren and Tony. Not more criticizing protesters and saying what they "should" have done or what you would have done (if you had bothered to get off your lazy asses and shown up - and if you have, I guarantee it's not frequently - one of the hallmarks of this protest is that people who regularly show up do not criticize other protesters for not doing things exactly the way that they would like). At the end of a 5-6 hour day of protesting, people are a little punchier. So the fuck what if you were "cringing" all through the video or that you're "sad" that protesters didn't handle it your way. At least they were out protesting fur.
 

And this is exactly why I don't think posting random video of protests is helpful. Some asshole/armchair activist who wasn't at the protest and can't be bothered to show up to any is always going to figure out a way to attack/criticize protesters, job one. Protests seldom look good from the outside and always involve conflict, which average armchair activist will run with and say that protesters are behaving badly. Many people there were not involved with that particular conflict (including me), but just coninued to do their own thing (pass out leaflets, etc). But I still give more admiration to protesters who protest in any way they see fit than I do to those who do nothing but are ready with the criticism.
 

I should have written and posted your reply for you, Anonymous, after I wrote my comment. Sadly predictable.

It is perfectly encapsulated in the following quote; "one of the hallmarks of this protest is that people who regularly show up do not criticize other protesters." Anything you say, Boss. Just tell me what to say.

Because I think yelling at a drunken dude is stupid I am "cringing." Because I disagree with how someone acts when they are "punchy", I am denigrated as "an armchair activist." You don't know what anyone who posts here does. I don't have to prove shit to you.

You call me an asshole -- your words -- looking to create divisions, to sow discord, and to try to define the movement as people who agree with your "strategy" versus everyone else -- ranchers, fur sellers, even AR people who don't. Do you even think people who disagree with yelling at some drunk dude are legitimately animal rights? Maybe that makes me animal welfare.

You are either a plant looking to sow discord behind an Anonymous screen name or someone who doesn't give a crap about animals but more about establishing your position as a "dedicated" activist, also behind an Anonymous screen name.

Way to build a movement. Maybe you can advertize your movement on indymedia as a non-hierarchical, inclusive, radically anti-capitalist, non-judgmental collective that can NEVER, EVER criticize what you do, ever.

Sign me up and tell me what I should say. I want to be an automaton.

Weak, Anonymous. Weak.
 

yeah, saw that response coming.

i applaud the protestors for going out there. it's thanks to them that schumacher's is being shut down. i only said it was too bad they didn't drag the situation in this particular video out and try to have some fun with it it. trying to seriously compare a drunk dude who could potentially be a fountain of humor to one of hitler's supporters is dumb and childish.

oh and just because my "lazy ass" works on saturdays doesn't mean i don't do shit elsewhere in the movement. i've been to enough protests (fur free friday included) to know how it works (chanting, dressing freakishly, using emotion and bumper sticker slogans instead of reason seems to be the norm in most cases in ANY movement).

the portland sign-holding and vegan communities are fucking scenes like any other.. if you don't think like a marxist and dress like you crashed into every aisle at the red light, you get the cold shoulder at pretty much any event.
 

okay before i get anyone else mad, let me say again that i applaud the protestors for everything they've done but i don't go because a) i work and b) as anonymous said, longtime protestors don't like their shit fucked with and i don't share their style.

here's a cute video of a goldfish for everyone http://www.fish-school.com/gallery/Soccer/soccervid.mpg
 

Your negativity speaks for itself, lauren and tony. FF posts a video from a protest, making fun of some dude supporting fur. And instead of moving on or saying 'go protesters' you come up with how you were "cringing" at protester behavior and how you were "sad" that everyone in a large group of people didn't handle the situation exactly as you would have. Thank you for not coming to protests and spreading around your negativity and judgements about how "freakish," "dumb," and "childish" protesters can be.

Again (to Bluejay) - this is the reason for not posting random video - it brings the negative assholes out of the woodwork. Seriously the people who are most negative are the ones who seem to be rationalizing their own lack of participation in protests of any kind. It's fine to not go, but to throw slings at people who do to justify why you don't is kinda lame.
 

If you so vocally don't like these protesters' behavior, you could also be organizing your own protests that could go exactly your way (good luck, and as soon as your start judging everyone else's behavior and dictating what everyone can do you'll find yourself standing alone) or standing out in front of Schumacher by yourself with a sign and literature. That would take care of conditions a and b of why you don't go to protests. Oh no, can't be bothered to do that either. It's just so much easier to criticize what actual protesters are doing from the comfort of your own home!
 

all right dude, since this is now a pissing contest, i have done absolutely nothing in my 11 years of veg*nism and you are king vegan of vegan mountain.
 

I'm always blown away by how the most seemingly innocent "look at this dumb drunk guy" post can turn into something so super serious. This is exactly why we (usually once a week or so) contemplate killing the forums and taking away the option of posting comments.
 

NOOO! Ago! You gotta step in doggy man! Chad and Emiko want to take away our forums and our comment posting! It's the best part of my day doggie man! It's the only place where I can post a comment and know that it is being read by a group of intelligent people like me.

Please Ago, stop them!! Show them who's boss!
 

About the video clip. I'd first like to add that there are a couple of other related clips at http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/01/352479.shtml. There is one that preceeds the one linked to on the FF website. The whole thing did not start by us shouting at the drunk guy. It started with the drunk guy shouting at the activists. We tried to have a civil conversation with him. We didn't realize at first that he'd been drinking and sometimes the verbal exchanges get a bit high spirited. I recorded the clips. I'm the one he flipped off (first clip of the intoxicated guy) and called an asshole and all I did was record what happened. I didn't say a word to the guy. The guy, after attempting to defend slavery went inside Schumacher Furs to drink more and he did. They have open bottles of wine on the counter. On his way out he chose to stick around to tell us amongst other things that mink have more fun on fur farms than they do in the wild and he continued to insult the activists. Despite the fact he'd been drinking we tried to have a conversation with him about why we were there, about the animals...because he chose to stick around and be verbal despite his wife's attempt to get him to leave. We encouraged him to watch the Chinese fur farm video. We did not harrass the guy (or his wife) but we did our part to speak out for the animals. I guess it was wasted on him but it was just one of those exchanges that happened. It isn't to be taken so seriously. There are many amusing moments during the protests, check out the "Prince Charming" clips at the same indymedia link. That guy spews the same trash (vulgar language) week after week just at the sight of us, it's unprovoked. It's not just him, others do it too, some stop their vehicles on Morrison to yell nasty things our way (it happened just yesterday as I was out there on behalf of the animals). Our protests are a friendly environment, with vegan food and beverages for anyone who comes by not wearing fur. Yes there is chanting, something not uncommon to protests. Our purpose is to educate and we do a good job of it. Those who have spent some time at our protests know what they are like. It is not a hostile atmosphere. It is not hierarchical. Nobody is told how to dress. We are a collection of like-minded souls speaking out against cruelty. Sometimes it isn't always pretty but most of the time it is and I encourage anyone who hasn't actually joined us at Schumacher's on Saturday afternoons to do so.
 

Correction to my previous statement. In the first clip (see indymedia) I didn't say anything to provoke the guy or insult the guy but I did say "you're a duck?" at the end of the clip, after he showed his shirt and said "I'm a duck". He seemed proud of his U. of Oregon affiliation.
 

okay, anything i've ever said on any of these forums or comments or whatever has always been misconstrued and i'm truly sorry i have ever posted anything.

good job to the protestors.
 

Thanks for the explanation Billy Goat. Yes, everyone is warmly welcome to any protest, regardless of the extent of their politics and tactics (unless those tactics endanger the group). Quiet, angry, peaceful, off-the-wall, whatever - everyone is welcome. The only thing that doesn't go over well is being critical or negative towards others who show up to protest. No one need feel like an outcast or "freak" at these demos. The people who can't handle others not marching in lockstep have mostly weeded themselves out. The protests are easygoing, free-flowing, and they exist for one purpose only: to educate and agitate about the fur industry.
 

Ahhhhh! Can we please stop all this infighting and focus on the real issue,the abuse of the animals. We are all working to achieve the same goals here. Lets try to stay on the same page and not jump down each others throats anymore. Thanks Billy Goat for your thorough description of what happened. Those of us who were there that night know what occured.
 

Thanks for the comments that followed my first one. Just want to let everyone know that I was just trying to add some context to the video clip(s). Was not commentary on prior messages. Each protest has its own story but they are as Anonymous described and everyone is welcome.